1 Topic by DrVeronica (edited by DrVeronica 2009-12-27 02:58:37)

  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Topic: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

I wish to improve the game on this server, so I am suggesting the following ideas to the Developers:

1.  Limit the clans to 10 members each. 
2.  2 clans officially declare war on each other.
3.  A clan can only be at war with one other clan at a time, and no one else (outside the clans) may attack any member of either clan. 
4.  If you want to play as an independent, you attack other independents or clan members.
5.  All other current honor rules stay in place.
6.  If a smaller village attacks a bigger village, that player has 24 hours to retaliate without honor loss.
7.  Support troops can only be sent among other clan members.

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • Registered: 2009-11-18
  • Posts: 239

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

My view or ideas on it.
1. The clan limit used to be lower I guess it didn't work. I can't remember its all a blurr.
2-5 seems ok but still need that anti hopping implemented so people don't just leave and attack and rejoin.
6. I think something like this is already in the game if I'm not mistaken or is suppose to be.
7. Sounds good if have ally system where maybe allies can send.  Each declared or alliance thing be public info on clan page automatically? A nap/peace system maybe could be a good thing where you set someone as peace and they are not attackable. War declares by both clans at same time mean no honor losses? The non declared attacks mean honor losses?

3 Reply by Hellikin (edited by Hellikin 2009-12-27 05:50:26)

  • From: Rode off into the sunset
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 524

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

I kinda like the idea of only clan members being able to send support.  It would radically limit a village's ability to save itself with outside help.  It would also mean that people would have to choose their clan members very, very carefully.

On stable, you currently have a 48 hour "Revenge Window" that starts ticking when a village outside your honor range attacks you... you can attack with no honor loss.

As for the rest, I like being able to attack anyone at any time for any reason... it's what makes a war game... well, warish...

7 x 13 = 28

Economics today is a race between economists striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof economic or financial models or programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning...
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 101

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Are you ACTIVE on Speed Hellikin? If not why not? If you are........ lets go.

5 Reply by Tyranicus (edited by Tyranicus 2009-12-27 06:53:13)

  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 101

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Can we try this idea out on beta? Can we test any ideas somewhere? Doompope's Siege idea?, a fix to vacation mode that recalls all troops? AI villages? Or are these ideas just bad for the game?

  • From: Rode off into the sunset
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 524

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Tyranicus wrote:

Are you ACTIVE on Speed Hellikin? If not why not? If you are........ lets go.

Of course I am.

7 x 13 = 28

Economics today is a race between economists striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof economic or financial models or programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning...
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 101

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Then lets get to it...........
"As for the rest, I like being able to attack anyone at any time for any reason... it's what makes a war game... well, warish..."-Hellikin

  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Tyranicus wrote:

Can we try this idea out on beta? Can we test any ideas somewhere? Doompope's Siege idea?, a fix to vacation mode that recalls all troops? AI villages? Or are these ideas just bad for the game?

Just keep in mind that each one takes time to program and test to even have it be a 'play testable' idea.  There needs to be some discretion in picking what to put on beta.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 473

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Hellikin wrote:

As for the rest, I like being able to attack anyone at any time for any reason... it's what makes a war game... well, warish...

yup, exactly

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

lol yes that just helps to improve the game so much...

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • From: Rode off into the sunset
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 524

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Well, this ain't Sims.

7 x 13 = 28

Economics today is a race between economists striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof economic or financial models or programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning...
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

If that's the case, what's your name on speed there helli

big_smile

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • Demonic
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
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  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Well, why don't all players who wish to play "stylish" don't just gather up in a few other clans?
I know it's nice, easy and safe to stay in alliance awesome but there is no need for it!

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 101

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

DrVeronica's idea breaks up the clan clumping of players, provides a way for players to choose effective solo or team play, and reduces the risk of total annihilation by alliance awesome type groupings during warfare. Is this not what the current Speed inactive power players have been asking for?

  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

DrVeronica wrote:

I wish to improve the game on this server, so I am suggesting the following ideas to the Developers:

1.  Limit the clans to 10 members each. 
2.  2 clans officially declare war on each other.
3.  A clan can only be at war with one other clan at a time, and no one else (outside the clans) may attack any member of either clan. 
4.  If you want to play as an independent, you attack other independents or clan members.
5.  All other current honor rules stay in place.
6.  If a smaller village attacks a bigger village, that player has 24 hours to retaliate without honor loss.
7.  Support troops can only be sent among other clan members.

1)  Null
2)  Two allied clans declare war on one another == unattackable.
3)  See 2
4)  No point of being in a clan at that point, just use ICQ or other messaging service to work around.
5)  Null
6)  Already In.
7)  See below.

I would rather see incentives in place to deter alliances in the first place, and strengthen the reasons to join and stay in a clan.  The other thread I made was to incintivize players to stay in a clan, and punish clan hoppers. 

For anti-alliance issues, what if some sort of clan-bonus is added if a clan attacks (Big Attacks) the clans of similar size around them.  This way huge alliances would be overall less competitive than clans who spread their hits out, in a non-alliance fashion.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Tyranicus wrote:

DrVeronica's idea breaks up the clan clumping of players, provides a way for players to choose effective solo or team play, and reduces the risk of total annihilation by alliance awesome type groupings during warfare. Is this not what the current Speed inactive power players have been asking for?

I don't think it does any of those, at best it would slow it down.  At this point, NO ONE else can compete with alliance awesome on speed.  Sure, its breaking up... but are the runes traveling to other, smaller clans?  Not from what I understand.  At my last count, AA had 60% server share (~2 months ago) and still holds most of that.  So now its just less players, holding more cards.

If you want speed to be a lively server, first step is convince players they are going to be able to play competitively on the server.  I ask you, if you started a new, anonymous player on there do you think you could hit top 50 before you were farmed out of the game?

So far from the many people I talked to, and my own opinion the answer is no.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 101

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

1) not null ..breaks up the player base into smaller clumps
2) no more alliances, just clan on clan, one war at a time lets test that and find out if it works
3) see 2)
4) is a useful critique not sure how to address that yet but would love to hear some ideas.
5) so....your point is? This is a package idea for fixing gridlock on speed.
6) see 5)
7) "No point of being in a clan at that point, just use ICQ or other messaging service to work around."
The way to deter alliance clumping is to implement changes that nullify the ability to make use of mass attacks from multiple groupings of players and limit fighting to smaller groups of players.

  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 101

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

"If you want speed to be a lively server, first step is convince players they are going to be able to play competitively on the server.  I ask you, if you started a new, anonymous player on there do you think you could hit top 50 before you were farmed out of the game?"

As evidence that a solo player can do pretty well even with the current screwed up structure on speed, take a look at demonic's lil solo war vs NBO. It has been going on now for 5 days and he is still in the game. Its a lot about heart and style. Oh and support troops.

  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Tyranicus wrote:

1) not null ..breaks up the player base into smaller clumps
2) no more alliances, just clan on clan, one war at a time lets test that and find out if it works
3) see 2)
4) is a useful critique not sure how to address that yet but would love to hear some ideas.
5) so....your point is? This is a package idea for fixing gridlock on speed.
6) see 5)
7) "No point of being in a clan at that point, just use ICQ or other messaging service to work around."
The way to deter alliance clumping is to implement changes that nullify the ability to make use of mass attacks from multiple groupings of players and limit fighting to smaller groups of players.

null means nothing... no comment, no opinion...

if declared wars are the only way to attack I think it would be a large detriment to the growth of the game.  I for one, would not enjoy this model UN mixed with simcity approach to a war game, and would not play it.

If being in a formal clan means a vastly restrictive game play i am not sure why people would join clans. 

Alliances don't kill server by attacking and killing alone.  If half the server simply agrees not to attack one another... and the other half play normally.  What half do you think is going to get attacked more? 

If a declaired war is the only way to attack, and thus gain runes... how many clan wars result in two clans that can still compete.  Most of the clan wars I have seen, result in one clan pretty much dead.

Finally, part of the beauty of this game is simplicity.  If I have to pm someone

Kind sir, I wish to engage you in a sporting game of fisticuffs, if you would agree to this I would find it a capitol good time.

Whats the point of a war game at that point?

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 101

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

"Kind sir, I wish to engage you in a sporting game of fisticuffs, if you would agree to this I would find it a capitol good time."

Are you serious Doompope? Is there one shred of evidence that the power players do anything but pay lip service to this type of sporting good fun?

What has developed on Stable and Speed is clumping due to fear of predation by strong upon weak. The strong prey upon the weak out of self interest, they can get runes more easily from the lil guys than by taking on someone their own size. Fix this dynamic and you have a game.

  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Tyranicus wrote:

"If you want speed to be a lively server, first step is convince players they are going to be able to play competitively on the server.  I ask you, if you started a new, anonymous player on there do you think you could hit top 50 before you were farmed out of the game?"

As evidence that a solo player can do pretty well even with the current screwed up structure on speed, take a look at demonic's lil solo war vs NBO. It has been going on now for 5 days and he is still in the game. Its a lot about heart and style. Oh and support troops.


HEAR, HEAR!

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Tyranicus wrote:

"If you want speed to be a lively server, first step is convince players they are going to be able to play competitively on the server.  I ask you, if you started a new, anonymous player on there do you think you could hit top 50 before you were farmed out of the game?"

As evidence that a solo player can do pretty well even with the current screwed up structure on speed, take a look at demonic's lil solo war vs NBO. It has been going on now for 5 days and he is still in the game. Its a lot about heart and style. Oh and support troops.

Maybe I see a different demonic but the guy who is 3-4k points?  In fact, I see no one with "demon" in their name with more than 4k.  Last time I logged in he was first.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 101

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Talk to demonic. He is using game mechanics to his own tactical and strategic advantage. He knows how to play within the structure of the game. And he does it as well or better than anyone I have seen play on speed.

  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

Tyranicus wrote:

What has developed on Stable and Speed is clumping due to fear of predation by strong upon weak. The strong prey upon the weak out of self interest, they can get runes more easily from the lil guys than by taking on someone their own size. Fix this dynamic and you have a game.

OK.  I have been saying that for nearly a year now.  How do the 7 points above encourage people attack people their own size?

And the quote was for your 'only clan war' concept.  I assumed two clans would agree to prevent abuse of it... but I guess really there is abuse written on it from either angle.

Agree on both sides:
Alliances can use this for invincible mode.

One side declares.
Alliances can use for invincible mode.
Can lock one clan out of attacking anyone but a large clan... bullying.
Alliance just snowballs a clan down.  First attacks, resolves war, second attacks, resolves war...

I actually thought of this awhile ago, in the end I dont think it really fixes anything.  It would slow down game play, in a game that can get boring at times, complicates an otherwise simple game, and provides another avenue of exploits for players to bully others.




And you two always talk about the evil players who hit smaller targets.  Why would I spend a great amount of resources and a very low chance of gain?  It is a dumb investment to do so.  A similar sized target, that logging on once or twice a day is nearly un-winnable against.  The last war, I had 6-7 full hits on my village, with few towers and no support... No Runes Lost.  No how do you think a 1v1 is going to play out?

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: How to Remove the Gridlocks on Speed

In the end it is my point of view that we should reward players/clans that 'play fair' instead of punish players/clans that don't 'play fair.' 

I am not, and I would wager that others are not so much inclined to like having their hands slapped for playing a game in the most logical way possible.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.