Topic: Attacks within Clan

I am not sure I was around when the original debate took place, if I was, then it was before I really knew or understood the games mechanics, so I am certainly interested on seeing the subject revisited.

Currently, the game allows, and by everyone I've ever spoken too, is not considered to be any form of abuse.  I would like to lobby, however, that the game be changed to not allow any attacks against your own clanmates.  I am not sure that this has any effect on the stable server, but it is important that this be seriously looked at because of how the speed server is effected.  As it stands, there are only two reasons that I am aware of for Clanmates to attack one another.

1.  To put a clanmate in rune protection.  -  Suppose you have 30-40 loose runes laying around, and someone marches on you to hit in 3-4 hours.  Why risk losing your runes in that battle, when you can have a clanmate 10 minutes away repeatedly attack you, taking those loose runes, passing them back to you and attacking again until they have taken 25% of your villages rune value.  Then when that real attack does hit, even if you lose 98%, they don't get any runes for their trouble.

2.  To Ladder runes between villages that are out of range.  -  You have 50 runes in your 2000 value outpost, that you want to get to your 10000 valued main?  Easy.  Get a clanmate of similar or larger value than your main, and attack him with your outpost.  Now that clanmate can attack your 2000 value outpost with no honor loss for 24 hours, and then trade the runes to your main.

Both of the above happen, and do so more often than you probably realize.

Now, I challenge anyone to provide a valid reason for clanmates to be able to attack each other.

I don't think anyone is going to say that the 1'st example above is acceptable.  And if the devs agree with the minority of players that the second is acceptable, then trades should just be modified to allow sending runes to any size village.  Either way, there should be no legitimate reason to attack clanmates, so please make the simple game modification to prevent those attacks.

Re: Attacks within Clan

The cap of rune trade was set for reason of unbalanced amount of size and to prevent certain abuses, so I can't agree there. I do think there shouldn't be any other reason currently to attack each other in own clan except for getting rid of small week units after upgrading to new types.  Daedeloth has told me in past he is going to be working on this. It may have been shelved or forgotten.

Re: Attacks within Clan

A little more thought into, maybe the better fix is to allow attacks between clanmates, but they never draw runes.

Re: Attacks within Clan

Yeah I'd assume it could be fixed to not allow rune capture and to not take away the honor loss. However it may be simpler just to not allow attacks on own clan.  I do not know how hard it would be to write that.

Re: Attacks within Clan

Both kind of attacks should be forbidden..
I don't see any problem with attacking clanmates, it's the unfairness of abusing rune protection or using it for a ladder system.
Therefore, any attack that is suspicious should be reversed by a moderator.
I know this is a lot of work for the mods, but then again.. that's why they are here.
I also see no use in sending runes and resources or weaponry to any village that is bigger.
There is no use in runetrading, the game would be more balanced if there was no trading in runes and no sending of resources to higher players.
The sending of weaponry or armoury should be completely disabled to prevent large players with a small outpost gaining even more power on smaller players.

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.

Re: Attacks within Clan

I don't think sending equipment to your own OP should be disabled, but id support the arguement for disabling equipment from being sent...Although i think a way to get rid of old equipment is much needed(and has been requested several times)

Re: Attacks within Clan

I'll be fine with legit rune trading.  I think there is a healthy debate whether Dolumar is an individual's game or a team based game.  If you subscribe to it being a team game, then rune trading is almost a necessity.  It would be hard for villages which specialize in anything other than troops to gain runes to continue growth without it.  Same goes for weapon trading.  Without weapon trading, everyone is forced to spend obscene amounts of runes on weapon and armor smiths, and iron for upgrades.  Again that comes down to the perception of individual vs team. 

I think a shift towards individual would further shrink the already too small player base, so I would argue that those items should remain as they are.  And yes, give us a way to destroy old equipment.  We can't even trade it off to offline villages anymore.

Re: Attacks within Clan

I see no problem with rune/weapon/resource trading.

I do think attacks on fellow clanmembers, for the sole purpose of shirking the battle system, needs to be looked at.

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper

Re: Attacks within Clan

Legit trading is something we all could aprove off, but then there needs to be a trade standard.
For example:
1 water rune = 2 other runes.
Any trade up or down is fine
In case of sending runes up to a player who is higher ranked and there are no runes of the same value transfered down this would qualify as pushing and should be punished.

Same for gems, iron, food and gold...
Depending the amount of resources in the game the value should be easily determined.
I was thinking the same ratio's for gems as the storage but iron is the exception.

Sending weapons and items to other people is no problem, the problem is the overpowerd outposts.
Since you can have an outpost with a value of 3K with 700 gual (just an outpost, 1 barrack and stables, no farms since the main will provide all other resources needed),you are allready overpowered and not balanced at all. Having full plate 10 armour or sabre 10 sent to you from a clan member or your own main makes it so that you could attack villages that are 4 times your value.

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.

10 (edited by Ishtar 2010-09-20 18:14:11)

Re: Attacks within Clan

...but that is the entire point of being in a clan.

ETA: I think this thread was started as some players seem to be abusing the 25% value limit/24 hours and attacking own clanmates to circumvent it. *This* is what needs to be stopped...

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper

Re: Attacks within Clan

It's not, on stable there is no option to send resources up, or weapons, and there are clans there as well.

Anyways, it's game mechanics that are used to avoid rune loss.
Works like a charm, easy to do, all within rules and regulations.

But it does need to stop! wink

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.

Re: Attacks within Clan

Ahh see, I do not think that's how the developers intended that feature to work. I could be wrong, I am not them, I have no crystal ball. Just a hunch it's not smile

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper

Re: Attacks within Clan

True, they did not intend it that way..
It was intended to prevent a village being leveled over night, and i mean leveled like going from 10K points to 1k.

Anyways, that's not really the point, it does need to stop..
It's just that limiting the game options does not make a better game.
It might be better to enter some new code that balances the game, create some new rules that give mods the power to act against anyone that doesn't live up to the spirit of the game.
As it is now everyone is capable and free to use whatever game mechanics allow.
I would like to see that abuse gets punished.
Any kind of abuse, attacking lower ranked clan members to ladder up runes, attacking clan members to put them in rune protection to avoid runes being stolen, sending anything UP the ranking, laddering runes up within the 25% value (it's only there for trading, not for laddering), destroying buildings to be able to hit on a smaller target while sending runes to another player... and to recieve them back after the hit, sending runes away to avoid honor loss, sending runes away to make sure you win the maximum amount of runes possible (10% of total with a 100% win) and so on....

When mods know this is happening i think they should be at liberty to punish a player with a ban for 2 days (not being able to log into the game) and force them to vmode for 2 days. Ofcourse the benefits from the foul action should be reversed as well.
If it would happen again the player could be banned for another 2 days, this time without vmode making him a sitting duck.

Ofcourse this would demand a lot from the moderators, but hey... that's what they are here for wink

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.

Re: Attacks within Clan

I agree 100% that mods need better tools/powers wink

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper