Topic: Old Idea, to equalize players

From http://forum.dolumar.be/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=546

I was thinking the other day it may be nice to give a bonus based on rank so that lower players can climb faster and be more competitive. I thought something of the sort of 1% boost to production for every place out of first a village was. So a village in 51st place gets a 50% bump to production, 101st gets a 100% boost. It could scale in other ways like 1% per 10 or the like but this is the basic idea so that smaller players can catch up.

Also if a player were to destroy several buildings for defense/whatever the bonus would be locked for some time period so that they could not exploit it.

If something like this were to also be applied to building queues and rune searches smaller players could grow fast enough to be competitive.  I also think if something like this were put in, "noob" protection would not be as big of a deal, and villages getting leveled would not be an issue.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Isn't that the same as the fact that now building buildings takes more time and costs more, looking voor runes costs more and takes more time the bigger you become?

Me and myself hate vmode

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Wolfie_123 wrote:

Isn't that the same as the fact that now building buildings takes more time and costs more, looking voor runes costs more and takes more time the bigger you become?

It is related, but not the same.  Currently everything slows down as a function of size.  This would speed things up as a function of rank.

The difference between the two is that one is the same for every village.  A village with X runes invested in it, will have Y build time and Z rune search cost.

What this does is two things. 

1)  In order for two villages of the same size to be able to attack, and win against each other it needs to be a little easier to win, and thus distribute wealth/power.  This change can be seen on the speed server.  At the same time, if a village can easily lose more than it can build, it needs some way to recover.  Now there are war games that recovery is not wanted, but these games can best be described as conquest games... eliminate everyone.  However from what I see, this game is meant as a long term strategy/war game.  So if a player is leveled in a war scenario, and that player cannot recover there is a good chance they will just quit.  But from what I see we want more players playing vs a smaller number of large players.

For me, I would rather be able to level (or be leveled... as seen on speed) and have the villages recover rather than limit or hinder that.  It would also serve to take some of the fear and emotion out of losing a battle. 

2)  During the life of a server players join.  A system like this would help them to grow quick enough to reach competitive ranges.  In addition to new players, it would help keep all players in a smaller range of village sizes.  What this would do is drive up competition among same sized players, and drive down the need/want to hit smaller players.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

for non geeks, what doom is trying to say is, that if early in the server a player with a certain X networth takes 2 hours to build a building, a month later, when this player is big, and some other player, who is way back in the rankings, reach this X score, his build time would actually be less than 2 hours.
basically, lower rank players grow at a faster rate.
oh, and i like the idea tongue

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Can somebody ban whamra please? He just called me a non geek. smile lol

Me and myself hate vmode

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Not bad. This really would put the focus of the game off of being the first in and most experienced player and onto being a well coordinated teem. People who worked well together would have the supreme advantage.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

I like this one too

8 (edited by Tyranicus 2009-12-01 00:12:39)

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Here is an equalizing suggestion that you will all hate.....Let smaller players combine troop strengths for a single coordinated attack against a larger player. Do some balance testing to set limits, figure out a rune distribution scheme and voila instant activity from the up and coming players.

9 (edited by Lakers4eva 2009-12-01 17:59:13)

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

I have another ideea completely. Main villages can NEVER be destroyed, if the defending main-village has no runes in the bank no runes can be drawn even on 100% victory. To prevent players from abusing this and sending their runes to a friend if they know they'll loose and then getting them back after the fight, make runes NOT sendable to other players if nothing else is sent in exchange, so only trading is possible and NOT free rune sending. (Actually this CAN be abused also so Something else needs to be done against abusing this) The second part of this ideea is to make it easier to build outposts and outposts CAN be destroyed almost like now, but put a limit on the max runes an attack can yield, like max5 runes. Also important, not destroy a building completely, but destroy LEVELS of buildings, so a lvl10 building will not be destroyed completely but reduced to max lvl5, on a victory. Victory would be defined as a 60%+ victory, anything less will only yield resourses. So a 60% victory yields 1 rune, 70%=2runes, 80%=3runes, 90%=4 runes and 100%=5 runes. This would stop players quiting the game after receiving 2 or 3 attacks, would increase a LOT the action around here, make the game a lot less boring.
And how to make outpost constructing much easier? I think make it so that at every 2 lvl of castle upgrade from the main village lets you build a new outpost to a MAX 5 outpost at lvl 10 Castle and also introduce the need to upgrade the castles from the outposts too.
To better explain(cause my english not my main, i have a hard time making myself understood smile ) i'll put it in numbers:
-1'st outpost needs main Castle at lvl3
-2'nd outpost needs main Castle at lvl5 AND 1'st outposts Castle at lvl3
-3'rd outpost needs main Castle at lvl7, 1st outposts Castle at lvl5 AND 2'nd outposts Castle at lvl3
-4'th outpost needs main Castle at lvl9, 1'st outposts Castle at lvl7, 2'nd outposts Castle at lvl5 AND 3'rd outposts Castle at lvl3
-5'th outpost needs(this would not even be really possible in 1 year, MAYBE) needs main Castle at lvl11, 1'st outposts Castle at lvl9, 2'nd outposts Castle at lvl7, 3'rd outposts Castle at lvl5 AND 4'th outposts Castle at lvl3.

Long post i know, but i really think this could work.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Removing the ability to draw runes from main villages would in effect destroy the economy of the game. 

Think about the first outpost in your post.  Purely in upgrade time, a lvl 3 castle needs 3 days of upgrade time.  Calculate in the fact that players will be searching for these runes, and that a player is unable to search in that time.  Before any runes are going to start changing hands... a large sum of time will elapse. 

Second, there is really a big incentive to not be the first with an outpost. 


And as far as multiple village's combining troops...  I think it would just kill any hint of strategy in the game, and really give no incentive to build defense or size.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Exactly my point Doompope. If you want to increase the player base on Speed or Stable you need to encourage new players to get active and coordinate actively. To do that the balance of power has got to shift to new players if they are active and well coordinated. The old vets will then have to be better coordinated and equally active or get reduced in size. Encouraging new players to effect meaningful changes to the strategic balance through coordination and activity is the way to build the player base.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Tyranicus wrote:

Exactly my point Doompope. If you want to increase the player base on Speed or Stable you need to encourage new players to get active and coordinate actively. To do that the balance of power has got to shift to new players if they are active and well coordinated. The old vets will then have to be better coordinated and equally active or get reduced in size. Encouraging new players to effect meaningful changes to the strategic balance through coordination and activity is the way to build the player base.

But it does not encourage strategy, it encourages mobbing.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

But Doom, i said main villages can not be destroyed, but runes can still be stolen if there are unused runes in the bank(for this to work, the ability to send runes for free between players should not be allowed, at least not from main village). I also said, make it easier to build the outposts, the first outpost should be very easy to build(lvl2 Castle could only need a low nr of runes and take much less time to build), the later ones would be harder. It dosent have to be like it is now, upgrading Castles could be very easy at low levels and increase in difficulty for the later levels. Its true that some players would hold back from building outposts but the bigest incentiv in this game is to get ahead in ranking, so i think people will just risk it and build that outpost ASAP.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Lakers4eva wrote:

But Doom, i said main villages can not be destroyed, but runes can still be stolen if there are unused runes in the bank(for this to work, the ability to send runes for free between players should not be allowed, at least not from main village). I also said, make it easier to build the outposts, the first outpost should be very easy to build(lvl2 Castle could only need a low nr of runes and take much less time to build), the later ones would be harder. It dosent have to be like it is now, upgrading Castles could be very easy at low levels and increase in difficulty for the later levels. Its true that some players would hold back from building outposts but the bigest incentiv in this game is to get ahead in ranking, so i think people will just risk it and build that outpost ASAP.

By the time I finished reading it I thought of 3 ways to make it so a main village cannot lose runes.  One of which, cannot be regulated by any new rules or game mechanics.  And I am sure, that I cannot be the only one to do so, or that there are only 3.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

We always wanted players combining to attack and steal runes. "Ganking" if you know this expression.

But, not trough combining troops. Instead by combining:
1) Attacks, (so a few players inflict some damage, the last attack is a real one that steals the runes.)
2) helping with magic and thievery, we want this to become really important, to combine magic and attacks.

We're still refining magic and thievery of course but on testing you can already see some possibilities that magic can have. These are mostly options for the attacker.

I read this a lot that the defender has to many options and the attacker hasn't. Well we're working on this, but there are already some options for attackers now.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Wow the defender has too many options? And the attack has too few??
How do you get that one lol?

The attack has way more options than the defender if you ask me. Spoofs to figure out what the defensive line up is, thieves, a ton of attack spells that kick ass. The defender has no way of know how the person will place their troops. They get defense towers and 2 good defense spells I think.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

Drizz, when we say attacker has no options, we mean on stable server, speed server is diferent. Yes on speed there are more options but on stable attacker has nothing.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

yes but lakers4eva, you know that we are speaking about speed/testing, these things will come to be stable/standard soon enough. They are just quite a big change that we cant just push to stable. It would need everyone to rebuild their town etc, so we'll wait with these changes till after a reset.

Re: Old Idea, to equalize players

DoomPope wrote:

Removing the ability to draw runes from main villages would in effect destroy the economy of the game. 

Think about the first outpost in your post.  Purely in upgrade time, a lvl 3 castle needs 3 days of upgrade time.  Calculate in the fact that players will be searching for these runes, and that a player is unable to search in that time.  Before any runes are going to start changing hands... a large sum of time will elapse. 

Second, there is really a big incentive to not be the first with an outpost. 


And as far as multiple village's combining troops...  I think it would just kill any hint of strategy in the game, and really give no incentive to build defense or size.

my thoughts exactly

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...