• Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
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  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

To demonstrate things...
We (THG) have adopted the rules as set on stable and copied them with a few adjustments in time as hour honour code.
We don't do mass attacks, we don't do multi attacks...
I'll copy them here so it makes more sense:

Clan The Honor Guard
To conduct warfare in a fair and honorable manner, a code of principles must be established and adhered to.
Battles
Battles are fought between two villages. This is the preferred and honorable way to wage war in Dolumar. If runes are drawn from targeted village, a 24 hour waiting period will be required before any further attacks on same village by the attacker, his/her clan and any alliance members. Unless the attacked individual retaliates and draws runes also, thus, nullifying the initial rune draw.
Sieges
Sieges are multiple battles between same two villages. Sieges are sometimes necessary in order to draw runes from target village. Once runes are drawn, the same 24 waiting period as stated above is required.
Joint Attacks
Are multiple attacks on the same village by members of the same clan or alliance within a 24 hour period. This is not acceptable and will considered an act of war against The Honor Guard pr any of its allies.
Inactive Villages, Rune Banks, and War
Villages will be considered inactive and abandoned after 36 hours. Said villages are not covered by the above policies.
Our code of honor does not apply to anyone who is known to bend the rules of the game by banking, multi-accounting or any other form of cheating. Our code of honor will also be suspended against clans who perform an act of war against The Honor Guard or any of its allies until such time as we decide to re-instate it.

So despite those rules people still say we farm them or don't give them the chance to grow.
This may be because of different clans fishing in the same small pond. After all, i think Impirian is trying to stick to the rules as well yet it's only obvious that those 10 players within honour range of both clans get attacks from those clans.

But apart from that, the attacked victi... targ.... player could as well make sure he has a rune buffer and steel some runes himself.
I have attacked villages half my size in points yet lost no honor cause of the rune buffer these players had. That's nice and smart thinking as well, they will be rid of me and grow at the same time.
The thing that kills the server is the people crying when they have some attacks. TSR started crying because another large clan cancelled their nap. The thread of having attacks is obviously bigger then the actual attack itself.

So perhaps we need to look for a solution in the psych department, create smaller less angry looking clans, disband the alliance, offer smaller clans a temporary nap or something.
Just make them feel safe, there is no safety in a war game (shouldn't be any as well) but i think some people need to know that they won't be leveled after a few attacks.
Something the rune protection mode was supposed to do but didn't for some reason.

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

Demonic wrote:

snip

I have had the same thing on 2 servers (a good portion by people in this alliance).  While any success will get whining to some degree, when people feel they cannot possibly fight back is when they will start really whining, or worse quit. 

As far as your rules go.  In a balanced server you would not be farming.  However, 75% v 25% is farming regardless of the rules you place on yourself.  There is simply no way 25% can compete v 75%

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
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  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

DoomPope wrote:
Demonic wrote:

snip

I have had the same thing on 2 servers (a good portion by people in this alliance).  While any success will get whining to some degree, when people feel they cannot possibly fight back is when they will start really whining, or worse quit. 

As far as your rules go.  In a balanced server you would not be farming.  However, 75% v 25% is farming regardless of the rules you place on yourself.  There is simply no way 25% can compete v 75%

True!
We don't like the word farming, cause farming is bad (evil, the antichrist) bit i see how this would prevent some weaker players to grow.

Anyways, we (as in top 2 clans) are discussing this, and have been discussing this ever since the start of speed.
I'm sure we can come to a sensible solution.
But we also demand that the mod/development team takes some action to prevent this from happening, we may perhaps give up our dominant role on this server, but we won't do that for someone else to pick it back up from where we left it.
Some options presented were the players per clan limit, the vacay mode limitation, war between 2 clans so as you can see we are also thinking about the wellbeing of the speedserver.
(god knows i've spent enough credits for supporting it)
But once more, we really would like the mods/devs to think of a solution in the game mechanics cause this is something they can and need to change.
Let us bother about the game, the gameplay, the clans and the honour code big_smile

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: Speed Server

The "inactivity" is two fold, and the mods refuse to note such.  It's not just about the big players, and it's just about the little guys.

Funny, no where have I stated that I am not satisfied with the activity level of speed, yet doom poop keeps attempting to bring my attention to some "red herring."  Ha.

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • Ishtar
  • High Priestess of Martinis and Mayhem
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  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 332

Re: Speed Server

Dolumar is in its 3rd year of life. It has evolved, it has changed, players have come and gone, some have stayed.

The game is not "broken" per se. Clan size is not really the issue (TSR say split in half, we are and will always be TSR, none of us will attack each other...)

What changed, is how some people played the game. Yes, it is a war game. Yes people can ally and NAP and break allies and NAP's all they want...there are no rules.

An easy way to explain what happened of Speed is to compare it to the survival game "Survivor". Outwit, Outlast, Outplay. Impirian has technically won this game. How they chose to win is entirely their business. It certainly has never been done before. Too bad they do not win a million dollars.

Congratulations. No one wants to play.

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
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  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

Ishtar wrote:

Congratulations. No one wants to play.

May i ask you to stay on topic?
Nobody needs a smartass ruining a good conversation about the server.
It's not about impirian, tsr or any other clan, it's about who and how we will play on the server.
(i understand you are mad and upset but this is not the place for that)

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Ishtar
  • High Priestess of Martinis and Mayhem
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  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 332

Re: Speed Server

Type...delete...type....delete. You just don't get it. Sigh.

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
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  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

Perhaps you would like to think of a way that you and others will come out and play again as well is what i ment to say.
I'm sorry if i came on to hard, i'm a bit blunt at times wink
Anyways, instead of whitty remarks, what would need to happen for you to come out of vacay?

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Ishtar
  • High Priestess of Martinis and Mayhem
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  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 332

Re: Speed Server

I am the wrong person to ask. I have *no* desire to ever play Speed in this version again.

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
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  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

Ah.. okay, shame, we could use an honest opinion to help the game get even better big_smile

Anyways, here's a thought to the players in vacay mode.
What would make you come out? What would small players need to keep playing?
Would it make sense if everyone on speed followed the rules we follow?
Or do we need something else?

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

Demonic wrote:

But we also demand that the mod/development team takes some action to prevent this from happening, we may perhaps give up our dominant role on this server, but we won't do that for someone else to pick it back up from where we left it.

But once more, we really would like the mods/devs to think of a solution in the game mechanics cause this is something they can and need to change.

While these do not directly affect the validity of my main point (players can do something about the problem) it seems to come up so I will address, for completeness sake.
1)  Mods are players, and have the same ability to influence development as you do.  What we need is a developer solution,  (Semantics, I know... just trying to clarify terms)
2)  While I cannot speak on behalf of the development team I have been led to believe that the reason the stable was not reset, is that a solution to this problem is being formulated before a new server is implemented to prevent that it will happen again.  I can guarantee you that the saddest people to see a dead server are the people who own it, and that they are wanting to correct it.
3)  A developer solution will take some amount of time to a) formulate b) program c) test & debug and d) implement.
4)  People complain that their idea to fix the issue is not used by the developers.

5)  Considering 1-4 a player based solution may work until a permanent system is put in.  It takes less time, cannot be rejected by any authority figure and increases competition.

If people do not want to try, that is fine with me.  What confuses me is that why do the people who chant 'we need ideas to get more players' reject a player based idea on the premise that their ideas are rejected by the developers.  This idea circumvents the developer process.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

Demonic wrote:

Anyways, for the sake of the game i'm in favour of disbanding the 2 top clans.
(we, and i'm sure we speak for most top players) will however kick tsr back into vacay mode as soon as they have the guts to come out tongue

Demonic wrote:

what would need to happen for you to come out of vacay?

wink


For most of the people I have spoken with, the major factor for quitting was being 'farmed'  ie the feeling that there is no way to compete in the game.  This will always exist in a situation where most of the power of a game lies within the hands of a very few.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
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  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

DoomPope wrote:
Demonic wrote:

Anyways, for the sake of the game i'm in favour of disbanding the 2 top clans.
(we, and i'm sure we speak for most top players) will however kick tsr back into vacay mode as soon as they have the guts to come out tongue

Demonic wrote:

what would need to happen for you to come out of vacay?

wink


For most of the people I have spoken with, the major factor for quitting was being 'farmed'  ie the feeling that there is no way to compete in the game.  This will always exist in a situation where most of the power of a game lies within the hands of a very few.

OKay, i'll give you that... so if we would use a set of rules that would prevent players from getting the "feeling" they are farmed, how would that help? and what rules would that be?
It's no problem for me to leave my clan and start a new one with a few selected players but this won't solve a thing.
Also, if we would stop the alliance, disband the 2 top clans, what would that do?
Would the smaller players get the feeling they could play again?
I think not... but i'm willing to rethink. big_smile

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

Demonic wrote:

OKay, i'll give you that... so if we would use a set of rules that would prevent players from getting the "feeling" they are farmed, how would that help? and what rules would that be?
It's no problem for me to leave my clan and start a new one with a few selected players but this won't solve a thing.
Also, if we would stop the alliance, disband the 2 top clans, what would that do?
Would the smaller players get the feeling they could play again?
I think not... but i'm willing to rethink. big_smile

Say you and a couple other players left and started your own clan.  So ~3 people leave the 33 and are now a new clan.  There are 17 slots to fill... I bet those people would feel a little safer.  wink  Multiply that out by the 33, 11 clans.... so on.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
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  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

lol, so i should take 17 possible targets/victims in my clan?
Done that with the 13 i'm in a clan with allready tongue

Last edited by Demonic (2010-02-11 04:42:55)

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 100

Re: Speed Server

"Say you and a couple other players left and started your own clan.  So ~3 people leave the 33 and are now a new clan.  There are 17 slots to fill... I bet those people would feel a little safer.    Multiply that out by the 33, 11 clans.... so on." - DoomPope

DoomPope is suggesting that the current clans voluntarily reorganize into less effective entities in  order to make the less active and less effective and newer players "FEEL" like they might stand a chance in the current GAME as it is structured. Okay, for the sake if argument, say this might have the desired effect of increasing the active player base? An argument which I disagree with. How do the clan leaders convince the current membership this is a good idea? Clan Impirian began discussing the option of breaking up into two clans months ago.  What a surprise, the idea died for lack of enthusiasm. The consensus was that the overall effect would be to clump existing non member players into a second starving giant. Do you suggest the leadership should act unilaterally and kick players out of the clan against their will? Then tell them go forth and make your own way and oh yes you must not farm anyone because that would discourage the fragile player base?

  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 100

Re: Speed Server

Give the smaller players the game structure to fight back in a meaningful  way. Force the LARGE veteran players to fight for what they have. Shift the balance of power to the smaller players that stay active, fight smart, and coordinate effectively and the best WILL rise in that environment. Give the player base some breathing room by adding AI villages and the player base will grow.

  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

Tyranicus wrote:

Give the smaller players the game structure to fight back in a meaningful  way. Force the LARGE veteran players to fight for what they have. Shift the balance of power to the smaller players that stay active, fight smart, and coordinate effectively and the best WILL rise in that environment. Give the player base some breathing room by adding AI villages and the player base will grow.

So we take a dead idea, implement it.  OK Great. 
How exactly are those 25% going to fight 75% 

Tyranicus wrote:

How do the clan leaders convince the current membership this is a good idea?

 

So you do not know how to leave clans, therefor the idea is invalid?  You yourself have said on many occasion that lumping power in smaller groups is to the determent of the game... yet that is exactly what you strive to do, and refuse to change.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Ishtar
  • High Priestess of Martinis and Mayhem
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  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 332

Re: Speed Server

DoomPope wrote:

So we take a dead idea, implement it.  OK Great.
How exactly are those 25% going to fight 75%

Exactly!!!!

Clan A, Clan B, Clan C,D,E,F and so forth.

Clan A and B are buddies with an alliance. That leaves C,D,E,F and any newbie as A and B food. Bad odds....bad, bad odds.

As a member of said Clan C, what chance do we even have?? :S

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 100

Re: Speed Server

"You yourself have said on many occasion that lumping power in smaller groups is to the determent of the game" - DoomPope

What I said was; That players clumping into fewer larger stronger clans is the natural result of the current game structure.  I have said players clump into clan herds for the same reason antelope and zebra do.....PREDATION! You yourself have pointed out there were clans working together before they were coded for here in Dolumar. What I have suggested is to change game structure to limit clan membership according to the number of active players. But that you can not prevent players from forming clan and supra-clan entities as long as they can communicate, so it is better to encourage coordinated effort and reward it. Shift the balance in favor of the up and coming and force the existing vets to fight better through coordinated effort.

Would Speed be more active with more active clans with fewer members in each clan? Probably, in the short term, the wolves would have more targets for a few weeks, the larger, more active players would grow fatter, the smaller, less active would be driven out at an even faster rate.

  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
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  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

The issue is that we allready use some code that stops us from farming the smaller players.
We don't allow any more attacks from the same clan on one player after runes are won in battle.
Now if we would split up that would be lost, and complaining little girls like ishtar would not get 1 or 2 clans to fight but 4 or 6.
We all hunt the same targets wink
So just disbanding the clans might be an option, but not just like that.

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Ishtar
  • High Priestess of Martinis and Mayhem
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  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 332

Re: Speed Server

You are really quite rude, Demonic.

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: Speed Server

I second that.

Dude, what is your problem, and where are my effen runes???? tongue

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: Speed Server

Ishtar wrote:
DoomPope wrote:

So we take a dead idea, implement it.  OK Great.
How exactly are those 25% going to fight 75%

Exactly!!!!

Clan A, Clan B, Clan C,D,E,F and so forth.

Clan A and B are buddies with an alliance. That leaves C,D,E,F and any newbie as A and B food. Bad odds....bad, bad odds.

As a member of said Clan C, what chance do we even have?? :S



Ish, we end the alliance, would that make it better for you all?

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • Ishtar
  • High Priestess of Martinis and Mayhem
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  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 332

Re: Speed Server

I give up. It was not *me* or whamra, or Doompope, or Frodo, or Daedeloth, Santa, Bozo the Clown, or John-Boy who created this mess.

Think HARD what did it. There is your answer.

Friends are just enemies that haven't attacked yet - Skipper