• From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Topic: Speed Server

I hear alot of people complaining about the inactivity of speed server, and see that the popular idea is to limit vacation mode.

I actually logged onto the speed server yesterday... and did a little math.

Total pts of top 25 clans = 1034340
Total pts of top 2 allied clans = 412980
Total % of top 25 allied together 39.93%

These numbers include all inactive players in the top 25.  Let's drop out the scores from those clans.  In this calculation 'active' is defined as when a significant portion of the players in the clan were not in vacation, and had logged in within the past week.

Total active: 544150
Total % active allied at the top:  75.90%

So looking at these numbers 76% of the top 25 has rallied against the other 24%


OK.  Now I am going to crawl out on a limb here.... but people are not going to play a game where they cannot actually play competitively.  You talk about ways to get more people to play, how about you actually let them play?  Break up your mega-clans, the mega-alliances.  This is something you don't even need the developers to do, you can do it right now... today even.  However as much as the people at the top talk about things that 'need' to be done to increase activity, they would rather rule a dead server than have to mingle and play with their underlings. 

Now I have read the thread about changing vacation.  I think the change is good.  However speed players this change is not going to somehow force people into playing with you.... the people hiding in vacation now will just quit (or be farmed to nothing...)

edit:
typo

Last edited by DoomPope (2010-02-09 13:35:59)

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • From: KELEVRA on STABLE
  • Registered: 2009-11-27
  • Posts: 165

Re: Speed Server

Your statistics only shows how flawed the game really is. That an alliance of i dono how many people(i dont play on speed) but around 60-80 people can rule over a whole server. I have nothing but respect for them. Its the developers obligation to not create situations like this.

  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

Lakers4eva wrote:

Your statistics only shows how flawed the game really is. That an alliance of i dono how many people(i dont play on speed) but around 60-80 people can rule over a whole server. I have nothing but respect for them. Its the developers obligation to not create situations like this.

This is true.  However, many of the players who now have the power to solve the problem have a solution to their problem.  It requires no testing, no development and can start right now.

And I am sure this flaw was never really though about happening.  Who would have thought, that 1/4-1/2 of a server would run an extermination campaign on the other half?

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • From: KELEVRA on STABLE
  • Registered: 2009-11-27
  • Posts: 165

Re: Speed Server

This is why i made this Diplomacy suggestion a while back.  Clan can declare war on another clan and while the war between them rages on, no other clan attack them, it's theyr fight, also they cant attack anyone else. A clan can also officially ally with another clan, only ONE, and in case of a clan declaring war on a clan, it automaticly declares war on the alliance, so then the war is taking place between two alliances, and no one else.
This ideea may need some refining and probably too much work to be implemented anytime soon, but the game needs developement.

  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

My idea can be implemented right now.  It needs no testing or development for it to implemented.

In addition, some of the people at the top of the speed server's mantra has been "Big people only serve to galvanize their standing at the cost of players."  Now they have a way where they can heed their own advice.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: Speed Server

Lakers4eva wrote:

This is why i made this Diplomacy suggestion a while back.  Clan can declare war on another clan and while the war between them rages on, no other clan attack them, it's theyr fight, also they cant attack anyone else. A clan can also officially ally with another clan, only ONE, and in case of a clan declaring war on a clan, it automaticly declares war on the alliance, so then the war is taking place between two alliances, and no one else.
This ideea may need some refining and probably too much work to be implemented anytime soon, but the game needs developement.

Hi Lakers,

I've suggested something like this before here: http://en.forum.dolumar.com/topic/97/ho … -on-speed/

As you can see, it met with a lot of complainers tongue

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

However, my method is still valid, can be implemented today, and requires no development.

What you are doing is referred to as a Red Herring logical fallacy. 
This thread exists to shed light on how active speed server is, why it is inactive and a method to resolve it that is simple, does not change game play at the development level and can be introduced live today.  If you wish to discuss ideas that require development their proper place is in the feedback section.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: Speed Server

So many suggestions have been made - lots with well thought out explanations - and all have pretty much met brick walls.  Pretty sad.

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

DrVeronica wrote:

So many suggestions have been made - lots with well thought out explanations - and all have pretty much met brick walls.  Pretty sad.

What you are doing is referred to as a Red Herring logical fallacy. 


You are in a position to implement one yourself.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • From: KELEVRA on STABLE
  • Registered: 2009-11-27
  • Posts: 165

Re: Speed Server

No offence Doom but i was not "Red Herring" anything(dont think you need to educate people on what the term means). Both me and Veronica were "chatting"(YOU posted in the general chat section) on how the situation can be fixed. Its easy to trow the blame on the players cause they create "too big" of an alliance. Whos to say that the alliance is "too big"? You Doom?
They want to play together as friends should. Not attack eachother but attack "enemies". The game is to blame that can not support such big alliances and still retain an activ player base.

Last edited by Lakers4eva (2010-02-09 22:07:19)

  • From: Herentals (België)
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 116

Re: Speed Server

Lakers4eva wrote:

No offence Doom but i was not "Red Herring" anything(dont think you need to educate people on what the term means). Both me and Veronica were "chatting"(YOU posted in the general chat section) on how the situation can be fixed. Its easy to trow the blame on the players cause they create "too big" of an alliance. Whos to say that the alliance is "too big"? You Doom?
They want to play together as friends should. Not attack eachother but attack "enemies". The game is to blame that can not support such big alliances and still retain an activ player base.

Actualy he does has to educate the non english people here

Me and myself hate vmode
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

Lakers4eva wrote:

No offence Doom but i was not "Red Herring" anything(dont think you need to educate people on what the term means). Both me and Veronica were "chatting"(YOU posted in the general chat section) on how the situation can be fixed. Its easy to trow the blame on the players cause they create "too big" of an alliance. Whos to say that the alliance is "too big"? You Doom?
They want to play together as friends should. Not attack eachother but attack "enemies". The game is to blame that can not support such big alliances and still retain an activ player base.

Actually you are.   Red  Herring "is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may in itself be valid, but does not address the issue in question"  You are both saying "I tried this and nothing happened"  Which is a counter argument, valid in itself but does nothing to address the point at hand. 

Now you are in Ad Hominem territory with a little Red Herring on the side.  Your points, may be valid but their validity does not effect the validity of mine. 

People on speed, including Eva put forth that I should dedicate time to fixing the issue of large players driving off small players.  This helps to solve it, today.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: Speed Server

DoomPope wrote:
Lakers4eva wrote:

No offence Doom but i was not "Red Herring" anything(dont think you need to educate people on what the term means). Both me and Veronica were "chatting"(YOU posted in the general chat section) on how the situation can be fixed. Its easy to trow the blame on the players cause they create "too big" of an alliance. Whos to say that the alliance is "too big"? You Doom?
They want to play together as friends should. Not attack eachother but attack "enemies". The game is to blame that can not support such big alliances and still retain an activ player base.

Actually you are.   Red  Herring "is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may in itself be valid, but does not address the issue in question"  You are both saying "I tried this and nothing happened"  Which is a counter argument, valid in itself but does nothing to address the point at hand. 

Now you are in Ad Hominem territory with a little Red Herring on the side.  Your points, may be valid but their validity does not effect the validity of mine. 

People on speed, including Eva put forth that I should dedicate time to fixing the issue of large players driving off small players.  This helps to solve it, today.


Exactly.  *Nothing* happened.

Surprise surprise.

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

DrVeronica wrote:

Exactly.  *Nothing* happened.

Surprise surprise.

Now the power to in act a plan to increase server activity is in your hands.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: Speed Server

DoomPope wrote:
DrVeronica wrote:

Exactly.  *Nothing* happened.

Surprise surprise.

Now the power to in act a plan to increase server activity is in your hands.

I vote we all follow you and go on vmode

tongue

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • From: Herentals (België)
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 116

Re: Speed Server

DrVeronica wrote:
DoomPope wrote:
DrVeronica wrote:

Exactly.  *Nothing* happened.

Surprise surprise.

Now the power to in act a plan to increase server activity is in your hands.

I vote we all follow you and go on vmode

tongue

NO

Me and myself hate vmode
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
  • Offline
  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

Doom is correct in some ways.
This was predicted when alliance awesome was still around (NBO-IMP-TSR)
And now it happens again... just with the new kids on the block (THG with IMP)
Suggestions about clan limits to 10 players are made and sounds pretty good to me, disbanding the two top clans sounds good as well, we could form 3 new ones from the remains.

Trouble is i (possibly we) don't want to give in to some whiners who say they won't play unless we attack eachother first. wink
Disbanding the alliance would in some way mean the complaining wusses won.

Ofcourse, we should be the bigger person here and have a game with more victi... er targe.. players i mean but i'm just not sure if we are that mature wink

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

DrVeronica wrote:

I vote we all follow you and go on vmode

tongue

Ad Hominem

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 580

Re: Speed Server

Demonic wrote:

Doom is correct in some ways.
This was predicted when alliance awesome was still around (NBO-IMP-TSR)
And now it happens again... just with the new kids on the block (THG with IMP)
Suggestions about clan limits to 10 players are made and sounds pretty good to me, disbanding the two top clans sounds good as well, we could form 3 new ones from the remains.

Trouble is i (possibly we) don't want to give in to some whiners who say they won't play unless we attack eachother first. wink
Disbanding the alliance would in some way mean the complaining wusses won.

Ofcourse, we should be the bigger person here and have a game with more victi... er targe.. players i mean but i'm just not sure if we are that mature wink

Yeah, it sucks but no one wants to play a game they cannot win for long.  Unless they are just really stubborn.  big_smile  Most people, when they get to a point when they are just vici... er targe.... will just quit... this goes for most games.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: Speed Server

No argument, we've been talking about this for a long, long time, doom poop

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
  • Offline
  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

The tendency now is even worse... whenever someone launches on anyone the victi.. targe. player nags by pm, then they cry in chat.. and even before one rune is stolen from them they either reset or enter vacay big_smile
It's not all a matter of game mechanics, or social behaviour in a game big_smile

Anyways, for the sake of the game i'm in favour of disbanding the 2 top clans.
(we, and i'm sure we speak for most top players) will however kick tsr back into vacay mode as soon as they have the guts to come out tongue

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • From: Herentals (België)
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 116

Re: Speed Server

Demonic wrote:

The tendency now is even worse... whenever someone launches on anyone the victi.. targe. player nags by pm, then they cry in chat.. and even before one rune is stolen from them they either reset or enter vacay big_smile
It's not all a matter of game mechanics, or social behaviour in a game big_smile

Anyways, for the sake of the game i'm in favour of disbanding the 2 top clans.
(we, and i'm sure we speak for most top players) will however kick tsr back into vacay mode as soon as they have the guts to come out tongue

only Hello

Me and myself hate vmode
  • Demonic
  • Winner of Speed v1
  • Offline
  • From: -452,675
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 643

Re: Speed Server

Wolfie_123 wrote:
Demonic wrote:

The tendency now is even worse... whenever someone launches on anyone the victi.. targe. player nags by pm, then they cry in chat.. and even before one rune is stolen from them they either reset or enter vacay big_smile
It's not all a matter of game mechanics, or social behaviour in a game big_smile

Anyways, for the sake of the game i'm in favour of disbanding the 2 top clans.
(we, and i'm sure we speak for most top players) will however kick tsr back into vacay mode as soon as they have the guts to come out tongue

only Hello

For starters, i might like the taste of it wink

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Brak
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-12-09
  • Posts: 16

Re: Speed Server

I'm short on time, so I may not have thought this through correctly, but it seems to me DoomPope is guilty of the "false dichotomy" logical fallacy in his position that EITHER the large clans stand and everyone eventually quits OR the large clans break up.

Having others point out that this situation was predicted, other alternatives were suggested (and rejected) IS NOT a Red Herring argument -- rather, they are pointing out the hole in Doom's position -- there are not only two logical alternatives.

Further, Doom's suggestion ignores the fact that breaking up the largest clans will not prevent NEW large & dominant clans from emerging again later on.

The game mechanics allowing this situation to develop need to be changed, or the situation will repeat. Human nature doesn't seem to be able to resist the "gray area" activities that lead to success & dominance in Dolumar.

  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 142

Re: Speed Server

Well said, Brak, well said!

Current Ranking on Speed: #1

Owner of: Property of Tyranicus, Lil' Tyrania, and Baby Villa tongue